Most often, stag/vixen couples simply misunderstand what cuckolding is.
I don’t support the concept of stag/vixen marriages because I believe a husband is clearly in charge sexually, or he’s not. If he is, then he is his wife’s Dom(inant) – if he’s even just passive about her play with other. men, that’s still not in charge, and still being a cuckold, even if not expressing his role overtly.
Stag/vixen couples will present themselves as such because they are against the “abusive” aspects of cuckolding and reinforce that the husband doesn’t wear panties, chastity, or get denied all intercourse. Well guess what? Neither do most cuckolds and those who do one or some of those certainly don’t feel it’s abusive.
When I see couples presenting cuckolding in such a way I typically know their understanding of cuckolding has been entirely shaped by cuckold porn and lacks any perspective into the emotional and mental bond that comes from a couple stepping out of the comfort zone of just dipping their toes and wading in.
You know what that stag does do though? He likes to watch. He likes his wife to be empowered to make the sexual choices. He likes his wife dating and telling him about it. Sounds like a cuckold to me.
it comes down to who is holding the leash…
A self-ascribed stag or ‘alpha’ cuckold is one who wants to enjoy the benefits of a sexually empowered wife while also protecting his ego and not having to be considered as ‘less of a male’. This is, of course, additional misunderstanding promoted by cuckold porn. Being a cuckold is tough – it takes more of a man, not less of one. A wife with a cuckold is empowered to have the best benefits of a life partner and well-matched sexual partner and she will value her husband more for that, not less.
By needlessly protecting the ego, a couple gives up the true return on the investment and never fully explores the emotional and mental potential of having another male sexually involved in the marriage.
It’s common for couples just starting out to be a hotwife couple rather than a cuckold couple – and this is a distinction I support because everyone starts out small and needs to explore their own relationship as well as her relationship with a bull – it’s a journey, not a destination. A stag/vixen couple willfully ignores the potential which isn’t the same, in my opinion.
Who do we see blindfolding her? Is that her husband following her directions, her bull’s directions, or is he making his own choice for their experience? Perhaps the husband is the one watching and actively directing how she is prepared. In both of these cases, I would see this as a Dom rather than a cuckold. If, however, the one watching is doing so passively as an observer, he is automatically a cuckold as he is experiencing this from a position lacking authority in the moment.
Essentially all couples start out as a hotwife marriage because a cuckold marriage is defined by the exploration of the empowerment (of the wife w/her husband) and submission (of the wife and her husband) established and expanded through the inclusion of another male into the marriage.
A hotwife couple (or stag and vixen) are generally ‘hobbyists’ and dabbling at the edges where they are emotionally ‘safe’.
A cuckold marriage has passed beyond the emotional safety threshold to allow themselves the deeper experience when intellectual and emotional boundaries are exercised and expanded alongside the physical ones.
Technically, this could be a Dom(inant) husband watching his wife and her bull playing out the scenario he chose, but with that penis, I can’t really see that and it’s really difficult to claim to be in control from a passive, observational standpoint.
Intersection of Poly
Some stag/vixen or hotwife couples will tell you neither of them is submissive and they don’t get into “all the BDSM stuff”. That’s fine, to each their own, but this would begin to align more with how I view polyamorous couples. Cuckolding naturally requires and leverages roles or a chain of command. That hierarchy can vary as can the depth to which the roles are explored. Some couples are both deeply submissive and will want to seek direction as a couple while others it’s very much pivoted around the wife. The husband seeks her leadership and she, in turn, will typically seek leadership (to a varied degree among different couples) from her boyfriend. While this is natural for our biology and native sociology, it cannot be enjoyed while the socio-normative male ego remains unaltered.
The husband has to find more value in supporting his wife in her role than in just protecting his feelings – feelings based on societal norms, not the norms the couple values themselves.
Submission is simply about trust. When a husband allows his wife to make the sexual decisions (with his support) he is trusting her through action, not just words. A husband who wants to sit on the sidelines but maintains that really, he’s still in control, probably has some trust issues to work out.
Trust & Chastity
The use of (enforced) chastity is something many non-cuckold couples protest and highlight as a something they’re opposed to. Fine – a couple doesn’t use chastity to build trust, they use it to celebrate and enhance trust. It’s not trust in the husband jerking off or not, it’s a celebration of a husband committed to enabling his wife to make the sexual decisions for herself and for him.
A husband who says he always makes all the decisions is clearly the dominant partner. A husband who can’t say that, but does like to watch, well… I’ll let you draw your own conclusions about what that means.
I know I have some long-term members who consider themselves in this category and I’m honestly not attacking anyone – I simply want to help change minds and hearts as I have on the simple topic of sharing the wife to begin with.
To preface, I’m not trying to bash anyone or troll. I’m in the lifestyle myself. This seems like an intelligent discussion and I’d like to give my two cents.
The fact that you think the male ego is a social construct means that you don’t have a FULL deep understanding of men and cuckolding.
If the male ego is a social construct, than the dominant bull stigma the wives seem to enjoy so much is a social construct in itself. You should be writing articles to convince bulls that they should “let go” and be cucks. Never in my life have I seen a wife seek a “progressive bull”. Seems like an oxymoron.
It’s ok if you reject your own male ego. But don’t sit here and put down stags because you don’t agree with how they do things. Be ok with the fact that There is levels to this like with anything else in life.
I have been thinking about this post for a while, and I find at least one aspect of it troubling, which is that it seems to treat heterosexual women as if they are sexual chattel, i.e., that their sexuality is property that must almost necessarily be owned or at least controlled and dominated by a man. That notion is epitomized by the photo caption “It comes down to who is holding the leash…”, which seems to postulate that every wife has a virtual leash that ultimately must be controlled by some man. The article seems to argue that the hubby naturally holds that leash, and might initially share that leash with a bull, but eventually either maintains control of that leash or relinquishes it as a cuckold to the other man.
That whole notion seems like an antiquated holdover of the male-oriented sexist notions of 1950s morality, in which women were supposedly supposed to save their sexuality for marriage, and the 1950s nuclear family, in which a husband protects his family by masculinely earning a living and the wife stays home and cooks and cleans and has sex with the husband not so much because she enjoys it but because he has earned it by providing for the family.
It seems like the whole point of the feminist revolution that has occurred both before and after the 1950s has been to unleash women from the bonds that society placed on them by virtue of their gender (and rightfully so). I see no reason why that should not be true with respect to their sexuality. In the 21st century, when women are now fully integrated into the work force and society agrees and acknowledges that women have the right to, and do, explore their sexuality with multiple partners before marriage, why can there not be relationships in which a wife is simply empowered with independent agency, free to explore her sexuality with who she chooses, while enjoying the benefits of a partnership with one particular man (such as friendship, emotional compatibility and financial security), rather than a piece of property whose title deed is held by her husband unless and until he transfers it as a cuckold to a “bull”?
Please note that I have never experienced any cuckold or vixen/stag relationship — it has just been a personal fantasy for many years. Between the two paradigms, I would almost certainly fall on the cuckold side of the equation (though I would have reservations about being put in chastity and losing intercourse privileges — that may be why I have been content not to progress past fantasy). I mention this just to show I have no ax to grind as someone who wants to insist on being a stag.
In reference to Voyeurcuck’s last post , yes , couples often are courageous and do often–with full understanding –willingly encounter risk in seeking out and developing alternative relationships . And sometimes , driven by forces I cannot pretend to fully comprehend , the impetus to explore begins with the husband’s needs and desires , and literally ends there as well. I have externally exhibited respect and a reasonable degree of “protection” ( read/discretion) to all couples I have encountered. Deep inside myself , regardless of my outside manners , the husbands I respect and admire the most are those willing to release their wives fully to explore sexuality. These couples , husband and wife , are truly courageous , and as a bull I am personally driven to not just sex , but to support the marriage.The most appreciated compliment I have ever received from a couple — “you have been a good lover and a solid friend to our marriage”. But , being honest , I have never hesitated to walk away from a “bad fit”, no matter how sexually attractive I found the wife . And for me , most bad fits begin and end with a husband obsessed with control , and a failure on my part at the onset to see and understand that .
Labelling people with a certain sexuality or preference is always difficult and dangerous. And accepting being a cuckold with all the non-masculine associations people naturally have around such role is not easy for everyone.
But there is a difference between being a cuckold because your wife doesn’t respect you or you can’t fulfill your role in the family OR playing the cuckold role because you love and respect each other and both get a kick out of it.
It’s only fun to be in a role if you like it. And it’s only fun to be I chastity because you actually can get an erection if you were released.
I know some of you are very keen on names and rituals, but others just like to play around. We for instance have had both a threesome with her in the submissive role, foursomes with other couples and lately my wife is arranging a date where I will watch her having sex with a stranger and later reclaim her.
Am I a Dom, a Stag or s cuckold? It matters less to me as long as we play in respect of each other and have fun
You’ve made my point for me – accepting the associations with cuckolding is not easy. It’s a lot more difficult when those associations are based on false ideas. Even when they are accurate, they are still a challenge.
I would agree you do not fit neatly in either category, but unlike the Dom or even Stag label, the cuckold label does have a very wide scope. Cuckolds can experience a very varied breadth of related interests like FLM, chastity, SPH, etc – and also the depth to which they explore them.
Perhaps there are people who can play more than one role in cuckolding too? I know I’m a switch when it comes to D/s play, so my “roles” in cuckolding may be versatile too.
For my own part, I had been the Bull to a couple in my younger days too. It lasted several months and I found it quite thrilling. But when I finally “met the family” I found it a bit too weird to fuck the mother while the cuckold put the kids to bed upstairs and ended the relationship.
And I know at least one of the men in the couples who has actively played both the Bull and the cuckold role, even where she was seeing several BBCs with his passive acceptance, so that kind of people exist
Thank you, Luvr.
This is absolutely spot on, james is definitely the strongest man I know…🙂
Well expressed , and in my experiences , dead on accurate . I find that for myself , as the “outside male”, I am generally happy and patient ( assuming she and I click and I see long term potential ) with the hotwife stage for a time . But…for me there is a tipping point . That point is whether the relationship will flower into a true cuckold situation where he cedes sexual authority and independence to her . For me , if it rolls on into his vision of “stag-vixen” , I tire of the couplings , as sexual fire ends up being suppressed by his control and the lack of developing deeper emotional connections . So..my question to you , based on your experiences , how do you or do you even recommend having a discussion openly with the couple about the differences and limitations of “non cuckold” relationships? My first thought is it’s above my pay grade , not my place to be a sexual therapist or even provocateur – I am the “other” male simply focused on her pleasure . But ..I also know from experiences , that if the relationship simply evolves or stays with hubby being or perceiving himself as in total control, I will be out of there soon enough , sadly , no matter the connection she and I have . I acknowledge this may totally be a limitation on my part , and mean no disrespect . But..my question remains . I’d appreciate your thoughts ..and thanks
This is a really appropriate point and question – likely one which merits its own article, but in brief, I think it IS something a bull should bring up. While I’d agree we should presume to be marriage counselors and such – we are that by default when we become more involved with a couple that being just a bull.
The true strength and value of doing this as a couple is the reward that comes from taking a carefully calculated and managed risk that requires trust and confidence. When we find a couple unwilling or unable to take that leap, we’ve found a couple who are at least expressing dysfunction in those terms even if they are not truly issues in their relationship. Sometimes all that is needed is a frank discussion about the reward potential, how this is ultimately always within the couples’ control, and how to go about ensuring each progressive step works toward everyone’s benefit.
And thank you , this helps …
It would be great to see you write on this more sometime in the future
I agree and appreciate this discussion. And I think we should also consider what a couple pt at stake versus what a Bull: after all it’s the couple that risks by far the most, both in respect to their relationship obviously but also in terms of “society reputation” in case the cuckolding becomes public in a way.
The husband is being seen weak and unable to keep his wife, the wife is seen as a slut….and the Bull in general just a “real man” without much social blaming, in fact probably the opposite among his friends.
We are all a complex product of genes, how we are raised, how we see ourselves among others and so on. Changing and admitting you are so far away from “the normal” takes time and may even never be admitted in public